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Possbile to move form runner to client?

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lacco

Possbile to move form runner to client?

Hi!

I'm currently thinking about executing the form runner (+ pdf generation) directly in the client. The idea is to move the form runner into an applet, but leave the persistence layer and form builder on the server side. When filling out a form, the xform is process by the client-side form runner, which probably talks to the persistence layer when saving the form.

Background: In my web application all data entered by users should be encrypted on client side so that no data is sent to servers in plain text. This way, the XForms logic in a server-side form runner could only process encrypted instance data which doesn't make any sense. To provide real data to the form runner, I have to run it in the client.

Since I have no experiences in Orbeon Forms' architecture, it is difficult to decide whether it is possible to move relevant form runner components in an applet or not. Are there any known dependencies or other possible obstacles which might prohibit this? Or do you would rather suggest using a javascript-based XForms engine and only use the Orbeon form builder?

Any comments/ thoughts on this topic are welcome, thank you!

Alessandro Vernet

Re: Possbile to move form runner to client?

Administrator

I am not sure to understand the encryption issue. If you have the
persistence layer on the server, you need to send the data to that
persistence layer at some point, don't you? Or are you thinking about
encrypting the data on the client before you send it to the
persistence layer?

Alex

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:46 AM, lacco <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi!
>
> I'm currently thinking about executing the form runner (+ pdf generation)
> directly in the client. The idea is to move the form runner into an applet,
> but leave the persistence layer and form builder on the server side. When
> filling out a form, the xform is process by the client-side form runner,
> which probably talks to the persistence layer when saving the form.
>
> Background: In my web application all data entered by users should be
> encrypted on client side so that no data is sent to servers in plain text.
> This way, the XForms logic in a server-side form runner could only process
> encrypted instance data which doesn't make any sense. To provide real data
> to the form runner, I have to run it in the client.
>
> Since I have no experiences in Orbeon Forms' architecture, it is difficult
> to decide whether it is possible to move relevant form runner components in
> an applet or not. Are there any known dependencies or other possible
> obstacles which might prohibit this? Or do you would rather suggest using a
> javascript-based XForms engine and only use the Orbeon form builder?
>
> Any comments/ thoughts on this topic are welcome, thank you!
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Possbile-to-move-form-runner-to-client-tp1685851p1685851.html
> Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> --
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>
>

--
Orbeon Forms - Web forms, open-source, for the Enterprise -
http://www.orbeon.com/
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lacco

Re: Possbile to move form runner to client?

Alessandro Vernet wrote

Or are you thinking about encrypting the data on the client before you send it to the persistence layer?

Exactly, that's the point. The idea is (when looking at Orbeon's general architecture) that form runner gets all the data in plain text (in the client), but the persistence layer only "processes" encrypted data. Of course, searching through the persistence API wouldn't work anymore, but that's something I have to live with or what I will solve on my own.

Do you have now a general impression of what I would like to do? Can you think of any challenges moving only the form runner into the browser which could make the whole idea fail?

Alessandro Vernet

Re: Re: Possbile to move form runner to client?

Administrator

I see. I think the only realistic way to do this would be to have
Orbeon Forms run on the same machine on which you run the browser.
I.e., users need to install a package that contains Tomcat and Orbeon
Forms, and will be accessing your forms by pointing their browser to
http://localhost. This is something we've done in the past, but asking
users to install a fairly large package is not always an option.

Alex

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:23 PM, lacco <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Alessandro Vernet wrote:
>>
>> Or are you thinking about encrypting the data on the client before you
>> send it to the persistence layer?
>>
> Exactly, that's the point. The idea is (when looking at Orbeon's general
> architecture) that form runner gets all the data in plain text (in the
> client), but the persistence layer only "processes" encrypted data. Of
> course, searching through the persistence API wouldn't work anymore, but
> that's something I have to live with or what I will solve on my own.
>
> Do you have now a general impression of what I would like to do? Can you
> think of any challenges moving only the form runner into the browser which
> could make the whole idea fail?
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Possbile-to-move-form-runner-to-client-tp1685851p1691744.html
> Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
>

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lacco

Re: Re: Re: Possbile to move form runner to client?

Thx for your answer. Running a web server locally isn't acceptable in
our scenario. I think I will spend a few days on moving the form
runner into an applet, and will report any progress here...
Alternatively, I will use at least the great form builder with another
XForms library.

Thx!

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Alessandro Vernet <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I see. I think the only realistic way to do this would be to have
> Orbeon Forms run on the same machine on which you run the browser.
> I.e., users need to install a package that contains Tomcat and Orbeon
> Forms, and will be accessing your forms by pointing their browser to
> http://localhost. This is something we've done in the past, but asking
> users to install a fairly large package is not always an option.
>
> Alex
>
> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:23 PM, lacco <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Alessandro Vernet wrote:
>>>
>>> Or are you thinking about encrypting the data on the client before you
>>> send it to the persistence layer?
>>>
>> Exactly, that's the point. The idea is (when looking at Orbeon's general
>> architecture) that form runner gets all the data in plain text (in the
>> client), but the persistence layer only "processes" encrypted data. Of
>> course, searching through the persistence API wouldn't work anymore, but
>> that's something I have to live with or what I will solve on my own.
>>
>> Do you have now a general impression of what I would like to do? Can you
>> think of any challenges moving only the form runner into the browser which
>> could make the whole idea fail?
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Possbile-to-move-form-runner-to-client-tp1685851p1691744.html
>> Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list.
>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Orbeon Forms - Web forms, open-source, for the Enterprise -
> http://www.orbeon.com/
> My Twitter: http://twitter.com/avernet
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
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>
>

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Karolin Heiss

XForms f2f meeting: "external models"?

In reply to this post by lacco

Hey

I would love to know more about the topic "external models" of the
XForms f2f meeting.
Does anybody already has some more information or is there any
documentation available?

Thanks,

Karolin

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Erik Bruchez

Re: XForms f2f meeting: "external models"?

Administrator

Karolin,

At this point it's mainly looking at use cases and brainstorming. But
basically this for how boils down to whether we should add in XForms
1.2 support for something like:

<xf:model src="..."/>

and/or possibly:

<xf:model>
<xf:import src="..."/>
...
</xf:model>

This said if you have feedback it will be welcome!

-Erik

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Karolin Krieg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey
>
> I would love to know more about the topic "external models" of the
> XForms f2f meeting.
> Does anybody already has some more information or is there any
> documentation available?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Karolin
>
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
>

Artem

Re: Re: Re: Possbile to move form runner to client?

In reply to this post by lacco

Hi lacco,

Have you moved the orbeon form runner into your applet?
I also want to add form runner into my app. But I still have no idea how to do it.
Could you help me please, if you have done? Thx.

Artem

Alessandro Vernet

Re: Re: Re: Re: Possbile to move form runner to client?

Administrator

Artem,

I don't want to say this is totally impossible, but running Orbeon
Forms in an applet doesn't look like something that is easily feasible
to me. It would represent a significant amount of work, and would
result in a very large applet, which might be impractical.

Alex

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Artem <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi lacco,
>
> Have you moved the orbeon form runner into your applet?
> I also want to add form runner into my app. But I still have no idea how to
> do it.
> Could you help me please, if you have done? Thx.
>
> Artem
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Possbile-to-move-form-runner-to-client-tp1685851p1752536.html
> Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
>

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lacco

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possbile to move form runner to client?

As Alessandra has already said, running Orbeon in an applet will be
propably a huge bunch of work. I think the approach of designing forms
with orbeon builder, but executing them with another client-side
XForms processor is more promising (possible libraries: XSLTForms,
Ubiquity XForms; all requires transforming orbeon-specific extensions
into another implementation). In the next weeks, I will take one or
two days to make a decision which direction I will go.

If somebody is interested in taking this step and perhaps willing to
contribute some work into this, we could try share experiences and
oppinions and make the step of decision-taking and implementation
together.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Alessandro Vernet <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Artem,
>
> I don't want to say this is totally impossible, but running Orbeon
> Forms in an applet doesn't look like something that is easily feasible
> to me. It would represent a significant amount of work, and would
> result in a very large applet, which might be impractical.
>
> Alex
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Artem <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi lacco,
>>
>> Have you moved the orbeon form runner into your applet?
>> I also want to add form runner into my app. But I still have no idea how to
>> do it.
>> Could you help me please, if you have done? Thx.
>>
>> Artem
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Possbile-to-move-form-runner-to-client-tp1685851p1752536.html
>> Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list.
>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Orbeon Forms - Web forms, open-source, for the Enterprise -
> http://www.orbeon.com/
> My Twitter: http://twitter.com/avernet
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
>

Artem

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possbile to move form runner to client?

Hi Lacco,

I need to run a XForm that is stored in oracle database. And I need to use portlets.
Do you mean I can run my form into my own portlet using one of those libraries?

Artem

lacco

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possbile to move form runner to client?

Hello Artem,

The following thread discusses that running an Orbeon form in an
portlet is currently not possible:
http://n4.nabble.com/Bookshelf-Form-in-Orbeon-Forms-Example-Portlet-td1746802.html

Since I have no experiences in portlet, I cannot give you a final
answer to your question. But my idea of using the mentioned libraries
is to transform a xform (which can be extracted out of orbeon) into a
web/ html form a browser can understand. For this transformation some
orbeon-specific tags and attributes must be handled (i.e. layout
informations like the grid from the form builder), and the stylesheets
have to be adjusted.

But, in fact, is it really needed to run your forms only in the
client, do you have a similar use case like me? I will be much easier
for you if you just stick to the server-side execution of forms, if it
is possible to you...

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 12:51 PM, Artem <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Lacco,
>
> I need to run a XForm that is stored in oracle database. And I need to use
> portlets.
> Do you mean I can run my form into my own portlet using one of those
> libraries?
>
> Artem
> --
> View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Possbile-to-move-form-runner-to-client-tp1685851p1773847.html
> Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
>