help with tool selection

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help with tool selection

jbarciela jbarciela
Hello all,

I have searched for compare / contrast information of cocoon, chiba
and orbeon in the mailing list archives and nothing recent has come
up.
I'm trying to get a sense of the relative merits of my options, namely
OrbeonForms or Chiba+Cocoon

I understand that OrbeonForms is  a more complete product and that it
will take Chiba + Cocoon to get all the functionality that you get out
of the box with Orbeon. Chiba seems more focused on implementing just
XForms (server and client)

   -   But how do they (OrbeonForms, Chiba+Cocoon) compare in features
/ easy of use / quality documentation?
   -   I haven't use Cocoon but there is a rumor about it having a
step learning curve and not so good documentation, is that (still)
true?
   -   I get the sense that Orbeon is XForms1.1 compliant but Chiba
only 1.0. Is that correct or it's just outdated documentation that I'm
reading?
   -   One goal of my project (despite been done in Java) is to
preserve memory use as much as reasonably possible. How the two
solutions compare in that department?

Maybe somebody already compared the two approaches, have some answer
to those questions and can save me a few nights of trying alternatives
-- oh yes, it is a pet project

I'm posting this in both Orbeon and Chiba mailing lists

Thanks!
Jaime


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Re: help with tool selection

wtellis
I can tell you that Chiba is much slower if you have a large number of
select elements.

-Wyatt


jbarciela jbarciela wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I have searched for compare / contrast information of cocoon, chiba
> and orbeon in the mailing list archives and nothing recent has come
> up.
> I'm trying to get a sense of the relative merits of my options, namely
> OrbeonForms or Chiba+Cocoon
>
> I understand that OrbeonForms is  a more complete product and that it
> will take Chiba + Cocoon to get all the functionality that you get out
> of the box with Orbeon. Chiba seems more focused on implementing just
> XForms (server and client)
>
>    -   But how do they (OrbeonForms, Chiba+Cocoon) compare in features
> / easy of use / quality documentation?
>    -   I haven't use Cocoon but there is a rumor about it having a
> step learning curve and not so good documentation, is that (still)
> true?
>    -   I get the sense that Orbeon is XForms1.1 compliant but Chiba
> only 1.0. Is that correct or it's just outdated documentation that I'm
> reading?
>    -   One goal of my project (despite been done in Java) is to
> preserve memory use as much as reasonably possible. How the two
> solutions compare in that department?
>
> Maybe somebody already compared the two approaches, have some answer
> to those questions and can save me a few nights of trying alternatives
> -- oh yes, it is a pet project
>
> I'm posting this in both Orbeon and Chiba mailing lists
>
> Thanks!
> Jaime
>  




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Re: Re: help with tool selection

jbarciela jbarciela
you are using both then?


On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Wyatt Tellis
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I can tell you that Chiba is much slower if you have a large number of
> select elements.
>
>  -Wyatt
>
>
>
>
>  jbarciela jbarciela wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I have searched for compare / contrast information of cocoon, chiba
> > and orbeon in the mailing list archives and nothing recent has come
> > up.
> > I'm trying to get a sense of the relative merits of my options, namely
> > OrbeonForms or Chiba+Cocoon
> >
> > I understand that OrbeonForms is  a more complete product and that it
> > will take Chiba + Cocoon to get all the functionality that you get out
> > of the box with Orbeon. Chiba seems more focused on implementing just
> > XForms (server and client)
> >
> >   -   But how do they (OrbeonForms, Chiba+Cocoon) compare in features
> > / easy of use / quality documentation?
> >   -   I haven't use Cocoon but there is a rumor about it having a
> > step learning curve and not so good documentation, is that (still)
> > true?
> >   -   I get the sense that Orbeon is XForms1.1 compliant but Chiba
> > only 1.0. Is that correct or it's just outdated documentation that I'm
> > reading?
> >   -   One goal of my project (despite been done in Java) is to
> > preserve memory use as much as reasonably possible. How the two
> > solutions compare in that department?
> >
> > Maybe somebody already compared the two approaches, have some answer
> > to those questions and can save me a few nights of trying alternatives
> > -- oh yes, it is a pet project
> >
> > I'm posting this in both Orbeon and Chiba mailing lists
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Jaime
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
> list.
>  To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>  For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>  OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
>


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Re: Re: Re: help with tool selection

wtellis
no, started w/ chiba, but then switched to orbeon when we ran into this
issue.


jbarciela jbarciela wrote:

> you are using both then?
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Wyatt Tellis
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> I can tell you that Chiba is much slower if you have a large number of
>> select elements.
>>
>>  -Wyatt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  jbarciela jbarciela wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I have searched for compare / contrast information of cocoon, chiba
>>> and orbeon in the mailing list archives and nothing recent has come
>>> up.
>>> I'm trying to get a sense of the relative merits of my options, namely
>>> OrbeonForms or Chiba+Cocoon
>>>
>>> I understand that OrbeonForms is  a more complete product and that it
>>> will take Chiba + Cocoon to get all the functionality that you get out
>>> of the box with Orbeon. Chiba seems more focused on implementing just
>>> XForms (server and client)
>>>
>>>   -   But how do they (OrbeonForms, Chiba+Cocoon) compare in features
>>> / easy of use / quality documentation?
>>>   -   I haven't use Cocoon but there is a rumor about it having a
>>> step learning curve and not so good documentation, is that (still)
>>> true?
>>>   -   I get the sense that Orbeon is XForms1.1 compliant but Chiba
>>> only 1.0. Is that correct or it's just outdated documentation that I'm
>>> reading?
>>>   -   One goal of my project (despite been done in Java) is to
>>> preserve memory use as much as reasonably possible. How the two
>>> solutions compare in that department?
>>>
>>> Maybe somebody already compared the two approaches, have some answer
>>> to those questions and can save me a few nights of trying alternatives
>>> -- oh yes, it is a pet project
>>>
>>> I'm posting this in both Orbeon and Chiba mailing lists
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Jaime
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
>> list.
>>  To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>>  For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>>  OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>>
>>    



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Re: help with tool selection

Erik Bruchez
Administrator
In reply to this post by jbarciela jbarciela
Hi,

At Orbeon we haven't actually used Chiba, so we can't directly comment  
on it.

> I understand that OrbeonForms is  a more complete product and that it
> will take Chiba + Cocoon to get all the functionality that you get out
> of the box with Orbeon. Chiba seems more focused on implementing just
> XForms (server and client)

It does seem like the above is a pretty correct evaluation.

>   -   But how do they (OrbeonForms, Chiba+Cocoon) compare in features
> / easy of use / quality documentation?
>   -   I haven't use Cocoon but there is a rumor about it having a
> step learning curve and not so good documentation, is that (still)
> true?
>   -   I get the sense that Orbeon is XForms1.1 compliant but Chiba
> only 1.0. Is that correct or it's just outdated documentation that I'm
> reading?

I believe that neither Orbeon nor Chiba are entirely XForms 1.1  
compliant yet, but both have at least some XForms 1.1 features. There  
is some information here about preliminary XForms 1.1 support in  
implementations (we try to update our section regularly):

   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Preliminary_XForms_1.1_Implementations

The only thing we can say is that we are committed at Orbeon to  
implementing XForms, and we are working hard on it. You can see a  
preliminary list of changes between version 3.6 and 3.7 here to give  
you an idea of the number of issues we have been working on recently:

   http://www.orbeon.com/ops/doc/home-changes-37#changes-37-full

-Erik

--
Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way
http://www.orbeon.com/



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Re: Re: Re: Re: help with tool selection

jbarciela jbarciela
In reply to this post by wtellis
good to know, thanks

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Wyatt Tellis
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> no, started w/ chiba, but then switched to orbeon when we ran into this
> issue.
>
>
>
>
>  jbarciela jbarciela wrote:
>
> > you are using both then?
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Wyatt Tellis
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I can tell you that Chiba is much slower if you have a large number of
> > > select elements.
> > >
> > >  -Wyatt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  jbarciela jbarciela wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > I have searched for compare / contrast information of cocoon, chiba
> > > > and orbeon in the mailing list archives and nothing recent has come
> > > > up.
> > > > I'm trying to get a sense of the relative merits of my options, namely
> > > > OrbeonForms or Chiba+Cocoon
> > > >
> > > > I understand that OrbeonForms is  a more complete product and that it
> > > > will take Chiba + Cocoon to get all the functionality that you get out
> > > > of the box with Orbeon. Chiba seems more focused on implementing just
> > > > XForms (server and client)
> > > >
> > > >  -   But how do they (OrbeonForms, Chiba+Cocoon) compare in features
> > > > / easy of use / quality documentation?
> > > >  -   I haven't use Cocoon but there is a rumor about it having a
> > > > step learning curve and not so good documentation, is that (still)
> > > > true?
> > > >  -   I get the sense that Orbeon is XForms1.1 compliant but Chiba
> > > > only 1.0. Is that correct or it's just outdated documentation that I'm
> > > > reading?
> > > >  -   One goal of my project (despite been done in Java) is to
> > > > preserve memory use as much as reasonably possible. How the two
> > > > solutions compare in that department?
> > > >
> > > > Maybe somebody already compared the two approaches, have some answer
> > > > to those questions and can save me a few nights of trying alternatives
> > > > -- oh yes, it is a pet project
> > > >
> > > > I'm posting this in both Orbeon and Chiba mailing lists
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > Jaime
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  --
> > >  You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email]
> mailing
> > > list.
> > >  To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >  For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> > >  OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
> list.
>  To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
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>
>


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Re: Re: help with tool selection

jbarciela jbarciela
In reply to this post by Erik Bruchez
Thank you Erik for your answer,

> information here about preliminary XForms 1.1 support in implementations (we
> try to update our section regularly):
>
>   http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Preliminary_XForms_1.1_Implementations

Great, I'll take a look

>  The only thing we can say is that we are committed at Orbeon to
> implementing XForms, and we are working hard on it.

I never doubted your resolve. I noticed that you guys have been
leaders in XForms-land for a long time now. Impressive work.


Jaime


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Re: Re: Re: help with tool selection

Erik Bruchez
Administrator
>> The only thing we can say is that we are committed at Orbeon to
>> implementing XForms, and we are working hard on it.
>
> I never doubted your resolve. I noticed that you guys have been
> leaders in XForms-land for a long time now. Impressive work.

Thanks :-)

-Erik

--
Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way
http://www.orbeon.com/



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