Hi there!
I wonder if and how the following can be achived: I need to add the result xml of a XForm to an url as get parameter. I wasn't able to find any serialisation that covers the following type of "transformation": <data> <parameters> <parameter_x>example value</parameter_x> <parameter_y>2</parameter_y> </parameters> <method>foo.bar</method> </data> have to be transformed to a link <http://test.do/moo/?xml=<data><parameters><parameter_x>example</parameter_x><parameter_y>2</parameter_y></parameters><method>foo.bar</method></data> So I'm looking for the proper setup to add the textual representation of an xform to an fixed string (the URL). Can anybody give me a hint how to do that? Thanks a lot, Thorsten -- You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws |
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Thorsten,
On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 2:57 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf <[hidden email]> wrote: > I need to add the result xml of a XForm to an url as get parameter. In addition to your regular instance, add one that has just one root element: <xforms:instance id="xml-parameter"> <xml/> </xforms:instance> Then, before you do the submission, you can serialize your instance into xml-parameter with an <xforms:setvalue ref="instance('xml-parameter')" value="saxon:serialize(instance('your-instance'), 'xml')">. In the submission, you'll use method="get". You'll let us know how this works for you. Alex -- Orbeon Forms - Web 2.0 Forms, open-source, for the Enterprise Orbeon's Blog: http://www.orbeon.com/blog/ Personal Blog: http://avernet.blogspot.com/ Twitter - http://twitter.com/avernet -- You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws |
Many thanks for your suggestion,
which -didn't work right out of the box- was a good point to start from. Though/So: The issue is(n't) solved right now... Here a short snapshot of the current situation/declarations: <xforms:instance id="submitted"> <xml xmlns=""/> </xforms:instance> <xforms:instance id="structure"> <container xmlns=""> <data /> </container> </xforms:instance> <xforms:instance id="result"> <resukt xmlns=""/> </xforms:instance> <xforms:submission ref="instance('submitted')" id="senddata" action="/server/" method="get" replace="instance" xxforms:instance="result" f:url-norewrite="true" includenamespaceprefixes="" /> <xforms:bind nodeset="instance('submitted')" calculate="normalize-space(xxforms:serialize(instance('structure'), 'xml'))"/> The calculate is just because we want to see in the instance inspector what's going on. We can alter that later to a fixed value. (Yet additionally I wonder, if the <xforms:setvalue> has to be triggered by an event or if it evaluates automagically before the data ist submitted?) However: The 'major problem' is , that the resulting url is URL-encoded (which isn't a big deal) and a lot of namespaces (which are not used at all) are inserted. All in all: that's nothing. Just to relief my personal curiosity: Is it possible to prevent these behaviours? Thanks a lot, Thorsten Alessandro Vernet schrieb: > Thorsten, > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 2:57 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> I need to add the result xml of a XForm to an url as get parameter. > > In addition to your regular instance, add one that has just one root > element: > > <xforms:instance id="xml-parameter"> > <xml/> > </xforms:instance> > > Then, before you do the submission, you can serialize your instance into > xml-parameter with an <xforms:setvalue ref="instance('xml-parameter')" > value="saxon:serialize(instance('your-instance'), 'xml')">. In the > submission, you'll use method="get". You'll let us know how this works > for you. > > Alex > -- You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws |
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We have some preliminary support for an extension attribute on
xforms:instance to exclude certain namespaces: <xforms:instance xxforms:exclude-result-prefixes="#all"> This willwork in simple cases, but you have to be a little careful at the moment with it. -Erik On Sep 4, 2008, at 4:12 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf wrote: > Many thanks for your suggestion, > > which -didn't work right out of the box- was a good point to start > from. > > Though/So: The issue is(n't) solved right now... > > Here a short snapshot of the current situation/declarations: > > <xforms:instance id="submitted"> > <xml xmlns=""/> > </xforms:instance> > > <xforms:instance id="structure"> > <container xmlns=""> > <data /> > </container> > </xforms:instance> > > <xforms:instance id="result"> > <resukt xmlns=""/> > </xforms:instance> > > > <xforms:submission > ref="instance('submitted')" > id="senddata" > action="/server/" > method="get" > replace="instance" > xxforms:instance="result" > f:url-norewrite="true" > includenamespaceprefixes="" /> > > <xforms:bind > nodeset="instance('submitted')" > calculate="normalize-space(xxforms:serialize(instance('structure'), > 'xml'))"/> > > The calculate is just because we want to see in the instance > inspector what's going on. We can alter that later to a fixed value. > (Yet additionally I wonder, if the <xforms:setvalue> has to be > triggered by an event or if it evaluates automagically before the > data ist submitted?) > > However: The 'major problem' is , that the resulting url is URL- > encoded (which isn't a big deal) and a lot of namespaces (which are > not used at all) are inserted. All in all: that's nothing. > Just to relief my personal curiosity: Is it possible to prevent > these behaviours? > > > Thanks a lot, > > Thorsten > > > > > Alessandro Vernet schrieb: >> Thorsten, >> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 2:57 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf <[hidden email] >> > wrote: >>> I need to add the result xml of a XForm to an url as get parameter. >> In addition to your regular instance, add one that has just one >> root element: >> <xforms:instance id="xml-parameter"> >> <xml/> >> </xforms:instance> >> Then, before you do the submission, you can serialize your instance >> into xml-parameter with an <xforms:setvalue ref="instance('xml- >> parameter')" value="saxon:serialize(instance('your-instance'), >> 'xml')">. In the submission, you'll use method="get". You'll let us >> know how this works for you. >> Alex > > -- > You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] > mailing list. > To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] > For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help > OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way http://www.orbeon.com/ -- You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws |
Hi!
I've got a new problem on serialisation: It seems, as if diphtons (german Umlaute like üöä and similiar special chars) are not properly escaped or can not be parsed on sending the data. I tried to use escape-uri, but it isn't implemented. The result is all the time an error message (error on submit). But the submission isn't send, we've checked that. What can I do? Thanks, Thorsten Erik Bruchez schrieb: > We have some preliminary support for an extension attribute on > xforms:instance to exclude certain namespaces: > > <xforms:instance xxforms:exclude-result-prefixes="#all"> > > This willwork in simple cases, but you have to be a little careful at > the moment with it. > > -Erik > > On Sep 4, 2008, at 4:12 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf wrote: > >> Many thanks for your suggestion, >> >> which -didn't work right out of the box- was a good point to start from. >> >> Though/So: The issue is(n't) solved right now... >> >> Here a short snapshot of the current situation/declarations: >> >> <xforms:instance id="submitted"> >> <xml xmlns=""/> >> </xforms:instance> >> >> <xforms:instance id="structure"> >> <container xmlns=""> >> <data /> >> </container> >> </xforms:instance> >> >> <xforms:instance id="result"> >> <resukt xmlns=""/> >> </xforms:instance> >> >> >> <xforms:submission >> ref="instance('submitted')" >> id="senddata" >> action="/server/" >> method="get" >> replace="instance" >> xxforms:instance="result" >> f:url-norewrite="true" >> includenamespaceprefixes="" /> >> >> <xforms:bind >> nodeset="instance('submitted')" >> calculate="normalize-space(xxforms:serialize(instance('structure'), >> 'xml'))"/> >> >> The calculate is just because we want to see in the instance inspector >> what's going on. We can alter that later to a fixed value. (Yet >> additionally I wonder, if the <xforms:setvalue> has to be triggered by >> an event or if it evaluates automagically before the data ist submitted?) >> >> However: The 'major problem' is , that the resulting url is >> URL-encoded (which isn't a big deal) and a lot of namespaces (which >> are not used at all) are inserted. All in all: that's nothing. >> Just to relief my personal curiosity: Is it possible to prevent these >> behaviours? >> >> >> Thanks a lot, >> >> Thorsten >> >> >> >> >> Alessandro Vernet schrieb: >>> Thorsten, >>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 2:57 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf >>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> I need to add the result xml of a XForm to an url as get parameter. >>> In addition to your regular instance, add one that has just one root >>> element: >>> <xforms:instance id="xml-parameter"> >>> <xml/> >>> </xforms:instance> >>> Then, before you do the submission, you can serialize your instance >>> into xml-parameter with an <xforms:setvalue >>> ref="instance('xml-parameter')" >>> value="saxon:serialize(instance('your-instance'), 'xml')">. In the >>> submission, you'll use method="get". You'll let us know how this >>> works for you. >>> Alex >> >> -- >> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] >> mailing list. >> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] >> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help >> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws > > -- > Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way > http://www.orbeon.com/ > -- 54. TDC-Show Die ausgezeichneten Werke des Wettbewerbs des Type Directors Club of New York Ausstellung vom 20. September bis 10. Oktober 2008 jeweils Mittwoch, Donnerstag und Freitag von 17:30 bis 20:30 Uhr Samstag und Sonntag jeweils 15:30 bis 20:30 Uhr Fuhrungen oder Besuche auserhalb dieser Zeiten sind nach rechtzeitiger Terminvereinbarung gerne moglich. Eintritt frei Halle 27, Hirschgartenallee 27 Rgb., 80639 Munchen Nahere Informationen unter www.typotag.de -- Jens Thorsten Stumpf Frontend Development Durchwahl +49 (0)89 17860 - 359 Direktfax +49 (0)89 17860 - 6 359 E-Mail [hidden email] KOCHAN & PARTNER GmbH Werbung, Design und Kommunikation Hirschgartenallee 25 | D-80639 Munchen Telefon + 49 (0)89 1784978 | Telefax + 49 (0)89 1781235 [hidden email] | www.kochan.de Geschaftsfuhrer ist Boris Kochan Eingetragen im Handelsregister Munchen unter HRB 92175 -- You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws |
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Could you send a reproducible case that runs in the XForms sandbox?
That could help. -Erik On Oct 9, 2008, at 7:38 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf wrote: > Hi! > > I've got a new problem on serialisation: > It seems, as if diphtons (german Umlaute like üöä and similiar > special chars) are not properly escaped or can not be parsed on > sending the data. > I tried to use escape-uri, but it isn't implemented. > > The result is all the time an error message (error on submit). But > the submission isn't send, we've checked that. > > What can I do? > > Thanks, > > Thorsten > > > Erik Bruchez schrieb: >> We have some preliminary support for an extension attribute on >> xforms:instance to exclude certain namespaces: >> <xforms:instance xxforms:exclude-result-prefixes="#all"> >> This willwork in simple cases, but you have to be a little careful >> at the moment with it. >> -Erik >> On Sep 4, 2008, at 4:12 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf wrote: >>> Many thanks for your suggestion, >>> >>> which -didn't work right out of the box- was a good point to start >>> from. >>> >>> Though/So: The issue is(n't) solved right now... >>> >>> Here a short snapshot of the current situation/declarations: >>> >>> <xforms:instance id="submitted"> >>> <xml xmlns=""/> >>> </xforms:instance> >>> >>> <xforms:instance id="structure"> >>> <container xmlns=""> >>> <data /> >>> </container> >>> </xforms:instance> >>> >>> <xforms:instance id="result"> >>> <resukt xmlns=""/> >>> </xforms:instance> >>> >>> >>> <xforms:submission >>> ref="instance('submitted')" >>> id="senddata" >>> action="/server/" >>> method="get" >>> replace="instance" >>> xxforms:instance="result" >>> f:url-norewrite="true" >>> includenamespaceprefixes="" /> >>> >>> <xforms:bind >>> nodeset="instance('submitted')" >>> calculate="normalize-space(xxforms:serialize(instance('structure'), >>> 'xml'))"/> >>> >>> The calculate is just because we want to see in the instance >>> inspector what's going on. We can alter that later to a fixed >>> value. (Yet additionally I wonder, if the <xforms:setvalue> has to >>> be triggered by an event or if it evaluates automagically before >>> the data ist submitted?) >>> >>> However: The 'major problem' is , that the resulting url is URL- >>> encoded (which isn't a big deal) and a lot of namespaces (which >>> are not used at all) are inserted. All in all: that's nothing. >>> Just to relief my personal curiosity: Is it possible to prevent >>> these behaviours? >>> >>> >>> Thanks a lot, >>> >>> Thorsten >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Alessandro Vernet schrieb: >>>> Thorsten, >>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 2:57 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf <[hidden email] >>>> > wrote: >>>>> I need to add the result xml of a XForm to an url as get >>>>> parameter. >>>> In addition to your regular instance, add one that has just one >>>> root element: >>>> <xforms:instance id="xml-parameter"> >>>> <xml/> >>>> </xforms:instance> >>>> Then, before you do the submission, you can serialize your >>>> instance into xml-parameter with an <xforms:setvalue >>>> ref="instance('xml-parameter')" >>>> value="saxon:serialize(instance('your-instance'), 'xml')">. In >>>> the submission, you'll use method="get". You'll let us know how >>>> this works for you. >>>> Alex >>> >>> -- >>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] >>> mailing list. >>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] >>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help >>> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws >> -- >> Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way >> http://www.orbeon.com/ > > > > -- > 54. TDC-Show > Die ausgezeichneten Werke des Wettbewerbs des Type Directors Club of > New York > > Ausstellung vom 20. September bis 10. Oktober 2008 jeweils > Mittwoch, Donnerstag und Freitag von 17:30 bis 20:30 Uhr > Samstag und Sonntag jeweils 15:30 bis 20:30 Uhr > Fuhrungen oder Besuche auserhalb dieser Zeiten sind nach > rechtzeitiger Terminvereinbarung gerne moglich. > Eintritt frei > > Halle 27, Hirschgartenallee 27 Rgb., 80639 Munchen > > Nahere Informationen unter www.typotag.de > > -- > > Jens Thorsten Stumpf > Frontend Development > > Durchwahl +49 (0)89 17860 - 359 > Direktfax +49 (0)89 17860 - 6 359 > E-Mail [hidden email] > > KOCHAN & PARTNER GmbH > Werbung, Design und Kommunikation > Hirschgartenallee 25 | D-80639 Munchen > Telefon + 49 (0)89 1784978 | Telefax + 49 (0)89 1781235 > [hidden email] | www.kochan.de > Geschaftsfuhrer ist Boris Kochan > Eingetragen im Handelsregister Munchen unter HRB 92175 > > -- > You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] > mailing list. > To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] > For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help > OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way http://www.orbeon.com/ -- You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws |
There is an XPath 2.0 function which is very useful: encode-for-uri.
We've got to finish the development quite soon, so I can't elaborate an example right now. I will have an look at it again as soon, as we're done and have the time for optimisations. Thx, Thorsten Erik Bruchez schrieb: > Could you send a reproducible case that runs in the XForms sandbox? That > could help. > > -Erik > > On Oct 9, 2008, at 7:38 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> I've got a new problem on serialisation: >> It seems, as if diphtons (german Umlaute like üöä and similiar special >> chars) are not properly escaped or can not be parsed on sending the data. >> I tried to use escape-uri, but it isn't implemented. >> >> The result is all the time an error message (error on submit). But the >> submission isn't send, we've checked that. >> >> What can I do? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Thorsten >> >> >> Erik Bruchez schrieb: >>> We have some preliminary support for an extension attribute on >>> xforms:instance to exclude certain namespaces: >>> <xforms:instance xxforms:exclude-result-prefixes="#all"> >>> This willwork in simple cases, but you have to be a little careful at >>> the moment with it. >>> -Erik >>> On Sep 4, 2008, at 4:12 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf wrote: >>>> Many thanks for your suggestion, >>>> >>>> which -didn't work right out of the box- was a good point to start >>>> from. >>>> >>>> Though/So: The issue is(n't) solved right now... >>>> >>>> Here a short snapshot of the current situation/declarations: >>>> >>>> <xforms:instance id="submitted"> >>>> <xml xmlns=""/> >>>> </xforms:instance> >>>> >>>> <xforms:instance id="structure"> >>>> <container xmlns=""> >>>> <data /> >>>> </container> >>>> </xforms:instance> >>>> >>>> <xforms:instance id="result"> >>>> <resukt xmlns=""/> >>>> </xforms:instance> >>>> >>>> >>>> <xforms:submission >>>> ref="instance('submitted')" >>>> id="senddata" >>>> action="/server/" >>>> method="get" >>>> replace="instance" >>>> xxforms:instance="result" >>>> f:url-norewrite="true" >>>> includenamespaceprefixes="" /> >>>> >>>> <xforms:bind >>>> nodeset="instance('submitted')" >>>> calculate="normalize-space(xxforms:serialize(instance('structure'), >>>> 'xml'))"/> >>>> >>>> The calculate is just because we want to see in the instance >>>> inspector what's going on. We can alter that later to a fixed value. >>>> (Yet additionally I wonder, if the <xforms:setvalue> has to be >>>> triggered by an event or if it evaluates automagically before the >>>> data ist submitted?) >>>> >>>> However: The 'major problem' is , that the resulting url is >>>> URL-encoded (which isn't a big deal) and a lot of namespaces (which >>>> are not used at all) are inserted. All in all: that's nothing. >>>> Just to relief my personal curiosity: Is it possible to prevent >>>> these behaviours? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks a lot, >>>> >>>> Thorsten >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Alessandro Vernet schrieb: >>>>> Thorsten, >>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 2:57 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf >>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> I need to add the result xml of a XForm to an url as get parameter. >>>>> In addition to your regular instance, add one that has just one >>>>> root element: >>>>> <xforms:instance id="xml-parameter"> >>>>> <xml/> >>>>> </xforms:instance> >>>>> Then, before you do the submission, you can serialize your instance >>>>> into xml-parameter with an <xforms:setvalue >>>>> ref="instance('xml-parameter')" >>>>> value="saxon:serialize(instance('your-instance'), 'xml')">. In the >>>>> submission, you'll use method="get". You'll let us know how this >>>>> works for you. >>>>> Alex >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] >>>> mailing list. >>>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] >>>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help >>>> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws >>> -- >>> Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way >>> http://www.orbeon.com/ >> >> >> >> -- >> 54. TDC-Show >> Die ausgezeichneten Werke des Wettbewerbs des Type Directors Club of >> New York >> >> Ausstellung vom 20. September bis 10. Oktober 2008 jeweils >> Mittwoch, Donnerstag und Freitag von 17:30 bis 20:30 Uhr >> Samstag und Sonntag jeweils 15:30 bis 20:30 Uhr >> Fuhrungen oder Besuche auserhalb dieser Zeiten sind nach rechtzeitiger >> Terminvereinbarung gerne moglich. >> Eintritt frei >> >> Halle 27, Hirschgartenallee 27 Rgb., 80639 Munchen >> >> Nahere Informationen unter www.typotag.de >> >> -- >> >> Jens Thorsten Stumpf >> Frontend Development >> >> Durchwahl +49 (0)89 17860 - 359 >> Direktfax +49 (0)89 17860 - 6 359 >> E-Mail [hidden email] >> >> KOCHAN & PARTNER GmbH >> Werbung, Design und Kommunikation >> Hirschgartenallee 25 | D-80639 Munchen >> Telefon + 49 (0)89 1784978 | Telefax + 49 (0)89 1781235 >> [hidden email] | www.kochan.de >> Geschaftsfuhrer ist Boris Kochan >> Eingetragen im Handelsregister Munchen unter HRB 92175 >> >> -- >> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] >> mailing list. >> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] >> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help >> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws > > -- > Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way > http://www.orbeon.com/ > -- You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list. 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On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 5:17 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf
<[hidden email]> wrote: > There is an XPath 2.0 function which is very useful: encode-for-uri. > > We've got to finish the development quite soon, so I can't elaborate an > example right now. I will have an look at it again as soon, as we're done > and have the time for optimisations. So, you are saying that things worked out using encode-for-uri()? Alex -- Orbeon Forms - Web 2.0 Forms, open-source, for the Enterprise Orbeon's Blog: http://www.orbeon.com/blog/ Personal Blog: http://avernet.blogspot.com/ Twitter - http://twitter.com/avernet -- You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws |
Hi!
Alessandro Vernet schrieb: > On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 5:17 AM, J. Thorsten Stumpf > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> There is an XPath 2.0 function which is very useful: encode-for-uri. >> [...] > So, you are saying that things worked out using encode-for-uri()? Yes, indeed. The error/problem didn't appear anymore, since we're using encode-for-uri(). Does this mean anything special to you? Thx, Thorsten -- You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email] For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws |
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Thorsten,
Sorry for the late response. Are you saying that in your previous example, instead of: <xforms:bind nodeset="instance('submitted')" calculate="normalize-space(xxforms:serialize(instance('structure'), 'xml'))"/> You need to write: <xforms:bind nodeset="instance('submitted')" calculate="encode-for-uri(normalize-space(xxforms:serialize(instance('structure'), 'xml')))"/> If this is what you were doing, that surprises me, as the submission should do the "right thing" when you do a submission method="get" ref="instance('submitted'). If this is what is happening, it looks like a bug to me, and it would be great to have a test case that runs in the XForms sandbox and that reproduces this. Alex |
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