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Thomas Lynk

Mysql

Hey,

We are looking for your support on an proposed upgrade to Orbeon.

We want to hire the team at Orbeon to replace the eXists with Mysql. That means when you create a form it will create a mysql database to store the form data. The issue is that it is a lot of work and expensive. I am looking for a group of users to cost share the project.

If you’re interested please contact me and we can discuss the details.

Tom

[hidden email]

(519) 962-9974

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Ethan Gruber

Re: Mysql

This would defeat the purpose of XForms entirely, would it not?

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Thomas Lynk <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey,

We are looking for your support on an proposed upgrade to Orbeon.

We want to hire the team at Orbeon to replace the eXists with Mysql. That means when you create a form it will create a mysql database to store the form data. The issue is that it is a lot of work and expensive. I am looking for a group of users to cost share the project.

If you’re interested please contact me and we can discuss the details.

Tom

[hidden email]

(519) 962-9974

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HankRatz

Re: Mysql

In reply to this post by Thomas Lynk

<base href="x-msg://286/">Tom,

Would it be simpler to get the data out of eXist and update Mysql with "shredded" data and/or

the XML as text document?

This adds a layer to the form designer that would break with every new feature or control. On the

other hand, a process that, say, uses XSLT to create SQL statements would move this task

out of the FR persistence layer. I'm presuming it doesn't need to be real-time...

--Hank

On Jan 28, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Lynk wrote:

Hey,

We are looking for your support on an proposed upgrade to Orbeon.

We want to hire the team at Orbeon to replace the eXists with Mysql. That means when you create a form it will create a mysql database to store the form data. The issue is that it is a lot of work and expensive. I am looking for a group of users to cost share the project.

If you’re interested please contact me and we can discuss the details.

Tom

[hidden email]
(519) 962-9974

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Hank Ratzesberger

NEES@UCSB

Institute for Crustal Studies,

University of California, Santa Barbara

805-893-8042

Jeremiah Jahn-4

Re: Re: Mysql

I use Postgres for this currently, but that's just me. And as far as work goes, as long as your not trying to run the xqueries against the db, it isn't too bad, about 2 weeks. you just need to change the persistence layer. As for the comment about the xsl to sql, I use that on a very sizable project that handles a whole bunch of data that way it transforms LegalXML into SQL. It works quite well for the past 10 years. I'd suggest that you leave the original XML around somewhere though in it's pure form, as you will not want to rebuild it if you don't have to. You might even be able to run the xqueries against them, or even against the exists DB and push xml into the MySQL for sql queries, a little redundant, but probably quite functional, and would save you on development time.

-jj-

On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Hank Ratzesberger wrote:

Tom,

Would it be simpler to get the data out of eXist and update Mysql with "shredded" data and/or
the XML as text document?

This adds a layer to the form designer that would break with every new feature or control. On the
other hand, a process that, say, uses XSLT to create SQL statements would move this task
out of the FR persistence layer. I'm presuming it doesn't need to be real-time...

--Hank

On Jan 28, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Lynk wrote:

Hey,

We are looking for your support on an proposed upgrade to Orbeon.

We want to hire the team at Orbeon to replace the eXists with Mysql. That means when you create a form it will create a mysql database to store the form data. The issue is that it is a lot of work and expensive. I am looking for a group of users to cost share the project.

If you’re interested please contact me and we can discuss the details.

Tom

[hidden email]
(519) 962-9974

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Hank Ratzesberger
NEES@UCSB
Institute for Crustal Studies,
University of California, Santa Barbara
805-893-8042

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Jeremiah Jahn-4

Re: Re: Mysql

In reply to this post by HankRatz

I'd also suggest that you use client states in place of exists. The one change will make things a lot easier. I also remember reading someplace that you might be able to se oracle, but that's costly, and I'm not sure where I saw that. My one problem with exists, is that you can't really choose where it is located, which is a an issue with exists, and not orbeon.

You may also want to check out a combination of JAXB, and hibernate. Don't know if that will work, otherwise you have to WAY abstract, and treat everything at a node level, and do some serious java reflection. You'l also run into a large number or normalization issues. You should probably consider just determining the metadata you need from he form, and using the DB as a place to store that, plus the intact XML as text. I really depends alot on what you are trying to do with the data.

Sorry for the explosion of comments,

-jj-

On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Hank Ratzesberger wrote:

Tom,

Would it be simpler to get the data out of eXist and update Mysql with "shredded" data and/or
the XML as text document?

This adds a layer to the form designer that would break with every new feature or control. On the
other hand, a process that, say, uses XSLT to create SQL statements would move this task
out of the FR persistence layer. I'm presuming it doesn't need to be real-time...

--Hank

On Jan 28, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Lynk wrote:

Hey,

We are looking for your support on an proposed upgrade to Orbeon.

We want to hire the team at Orbeon to replace the eXists with Mysql. That means when you create a form it will create a mysql database to store the form data. The issue is that it is a lot of work and expensive. I am looking for a group of users to cost share the project.

If you’re interested please contact me and we can discuss the details.

Tom

[hidden email]
(519) 962-9974

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You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing list.
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Hank Ratzesberger
NEES@UCSB
Institute for Crustal Studies,
University of California, Santa Barbara
805-893-8042

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Erik Bruchez

Re: Re: Mysql

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ethan Gruber

Ethan,

Using XForms doesn't imply that you absolutely have to use native XML storage.

-Erik

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Ethan Gruber <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This would defeat the purpose of XForms entirely, would it not?
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Thomas Lynk <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hey,
>>
>>
>>
>> We are looking for your support on an proposed upgrade to Orbeon.
>>
>>
>>
>> We want to hire the team at Orbeon to replace the eXists with Mysql. That
>> means when you create a form it will create a mysql database to store the
>> form data. The issue is that it is a lot of work and expensive. I am
>> looking for a group of users to cost share the project.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you’re interested please contact me and we can discuss the details.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> (519) 962-9974
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
>> list.
>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
> list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
>

Erik Bruchez

Re: Re: Re: Mysql

Administrator

In reply to this post by Jeremiah Jahn-4

Quick comments, not directly related to MySQL:

1. The embedded eXist is used for two purposes:

1.1. Storage of XForms state when memory overflows
1.2. Document storage for the demos

Regarding #1.1, we could use something else, it's just that we had
eXist on hand. Currently the XForms engine natively uses eXist for
that purpose, but it's an implementation detail I would say.

Regarding #1.2, you probably shouldn't use the embedded eXist for
production. Rather, use a separate eXist deployment.

Form Runner allows you currently to use eXist, Oracle XML, and
hopefully soon MySQL as a backend (if somebody sponsors it ;).

2. You can choose what eXist instance to use using the configuration properties.

3. Regarding client state: we still don't recommend using it except
for the smallest pages, because exchanging full state through Ajax can
be very costly.

-Erik

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Jeremiah Jahn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'd also suggest that you use client states in place of exists. The one
> change will make things a lot easier. I also remember reading someplace that
> you might be able to se oracle, but that's costly, and I'm not sure where I
> saw that. My one problem with exists, is that you can't really choose where
> it is located, which is a an issue with exists, and not orbeon.
> You may also want to check out a combination of JAXB, and hibernate. Don't
> know if that will work, otherwise you have to WAY abstract, and treat
> everything at a node level, and do some serious java reflection. You'l also
> run into a large number or normalization issues. You should probably
> consider just determining the metadata you need from he form, and using the
> DB as a place to store that, plus the intact XML as text. I really depends
> alot on what you are trying to do with the data.
>
> Sorry for the explosion of comments,
> -jj-
> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Hank Ratzesberger wrote:
>
> Tom,
> Would it be simpler to get the data out of eXist and update Mysql with
> "shredded" data and/or
> the XML as text document?
> This adds a layer to the form designer that would break with every new
> feature or control. On the
> other hand, a process that, say, uses XSLT to create SQL statements would
> move this task
> out of the FR persistence layer. I'm presuming it doesn't need to be
> real-time...
> --Hank
> On Jan 28, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Lynk wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> We are looking for your support on an proposed upgrade to Orbeon.
>
> We want to hire the team at Orbeon to replace the eXists with Mysql. That
> means when you create a form it will create a mysql database to store the
> form data. The issue is that it is a lot of work and expensive. I am
> looking for a group of users to cost share the project.
>
> If you’re interested please contact me and we can discuss the details.
>
> Tom
>
> [hidden email]
> (519) 962-9974
>
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
> list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
> Hank Ratzesberger
> NEES@UCSB
> Institute for Crustal Studies,
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 805-893-8042
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
> list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
> list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
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>
>

Erik Bruchez-3

Re: Re: Mysql

In reply to this post by HankRatz

Hank,

Form Runner supports and abstract persistence layer through a REST
API, so this shouldn't break as new features are added to Form
Builder/Form Runner unless the API itself is changed.

I think it makes sense to have a MySQL-specific persistence layer
implementation.

-Erik

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Hank Ratzesberger
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tom,
> Would it be simpler to get the data out of eXist and update Mysql with
> "shredded" data and/or
> the XML as text document?
> This adds a layer to the form designer that would break with every new
> feature or control. On the
> other hand, a process that, say, uses XSLT to create SQL statements would
> move this task
> out of the FR persistence layer. I'm presuming it doesn't need to be
> real-time...
> --Hank
> On Jan 28, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Lynk wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> We are looking for your support on an proposed upgrade to Orbeon.
>
> We want to hire the team at Orbeon to replace the eXists with Mysql. That
> means when you create a form it will create a mysql database to store the
> form data. The issue is that it is a lot of work and expensive. I am
> looking for a group of users to cost share the project.
>
> If you’re interested please contact me and we can discuss the details.
>
> Tom
>
> [hidden email]
> (519) 962-9974
>
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
> list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
> Hank Ratzesberger
> NEES@UCSB
> Institute for Crustal Studies,
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 805-893-8042
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
> list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
>

Jeremiah Jahn-4

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mysql

In reply to this post by Erik Bruchez

On Feb 4, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Erik Bruchez wrote:

> Quick comments, not directly related to MySQL:
>
> 1. The embedded eXist is used for two purposes:
>
> 1.1. Storage of XForms state when memory overflows
> 1.2. Document storage for the demos
>
> Regarding #1.1, we could use something else, it's just that we had
> eXist on hand. Currently the XForms engine natively uses eXist for
> that purpose, but it's an implementation detail I would say.
>
> Regarding #1.2, you probably shouldn't use the embedded eXist for
> production. Rather, use a separate eXist deployment.
>
> Form Runner allows you currently to use eXist, Oracle XML, and
> hopefully soon MySQL as a backend (if somebody sponsors it ;).
>
> 2. You can choose what eXist instance to use using the configuration properties.

>
> 3. Regarding client state: we still don't recommend using it except
> for the smallest pages, because exchanging full state through Ajax can
> be very costly.

Why did you deprecate the session based state? Seems like it wouldn't be too bad for a relatively limited number of users. And at the same time not require another pile of dependencies. Or am I reading the above correctly, and you've gone with the idea that it's better to push things out of memory, and into exists?

>
> -Erik
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Jeremiah Jahn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I'd also suggest that you use client states in place of exists. The one
>> change will make things a lot easier. I also remember reading someplace that
>> you might be able to se oracle, but that's costly, and I'm not sure where I
>> saw that. My one problem with exists, is that you can't really choose where
>> it is located, which is a an issue with exists, and not orbeon.
>> You may also want to check out a combination of JAXB, and hibernate. Don't
>> know if that will work, otherwise you have to WAY abstract, and treat
>> everything at a node level, and do some serious java reflection. You'l also
>> run into a large number or normalization issues. You should probably
>> consider just determining the metadata you need from he form, and using the
>> DB as a place to store that, plus the intact XML as text. I really depends
>> alot on what you are trying to do with the data.
>>
>> Sorry for the explosion of comments,
>> -jj-
>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Hank Ratzesberger wrote:
>>
>> Tom,
>> Would it be simpler to get the data out of eXist and update Mysql with
>> "shredded" data and/or
>> the XML as text document?
>> This adds a layer to the form designer that would break with every new
>> feature or control. On the
>> other hand, a process that, say, uses XSLT to create SQL statements would
>> move this task
>> out of the FR persistence layer. I'm presuming it doesn't need to be
>> real-time...
>> --Hank
>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Lynk wrote:
>>
>> Hey,
>>
>> We are looking for your support on an proposed upgrade to Orbeon.
>>
>> We want to hire the team at Orbeon to replace the eXists with Mysql. That
>> means when you create a form it will create a mysql database to store the
>> form data. The issue is that it is a lot of work and expensive. I am
>> looking for a group of users to cost share the project.
>>
>> If you’re interested please contact me and we can discuss the details.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> [hidden email]
>> (519) 962-9974
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
>> list.
>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>> Hank Ratzesberger
>> NEES@UCSB
>> Institute for Crustal Studies,
>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>> 805-893-8042
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
>> list.
>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
>> list.
>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>>
>
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Erik Bruchez-3

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mysql

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Jeremiah Jahn <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> 3. Regarding client state: we still don't recommend using it except
>> for the smallest pages, because exchanging full state through Ajax can
>> be very costly.
>
> Why did you deprecate the session based state? Seems like it wouldn't be too bad for a relatively limited number of users. And at the same time not require another pile of dependencies. Or am I reading the above correctly, and you've gone with the idea that it's better to push things out of memory, and into exists?

We thought it was no longer acceptable to get errors about the state
being not found. So we rewrote/extended the "session" mode to fix that
and allow overflow to disk. Since it was no longer technically correct
to say that the state was stored in the session, we picked the name
"server" which reflects the reality better.

You are right that we added a dependency on eXist. But it would be
perfectly doable, and maybe desirable, to write a plain
filesystem-backed overflow mechanism. If you are tempted, check
XFormsPersistentApplicationStateStore.java.

-Erik

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