Multi-tenancy

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Multi-tenancy

jpenninkhof
Just curious, is there anyone that ever thought of adding multi-tenancy to Orbeon, or ideas on how that should be architected?
With multi-tenancy, Orbeon might also be a mighty interesting software component in cloud-based solutions.

Cheers,
Jan


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Re: Multi-tenancy

Erik Bruchez
Administrator
We haven't thought much about this yet. Someday maybe! We are open to
thoughts on the topic of course.

-Erik

On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 2:37 AM, Jan Penninkhof <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just curious, is there anyone that ever thought of adding multi-tenancy to
> Orbeon, or ideas on how that should be architected?
> With multi-tenancy, Orbeon might also be a mighty interesting software
> component in cloud-based solutions.
>
> Cheers,
> Jan
>
>
> --
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> list.
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> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
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>


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Re: Re: Multi-tenancy

jpenninkhof
Was just playing with the thought that if you would assign each tenant an Orbeon "application", you may have a good foundation already.
Will give it some more thought.

Thanks,
Jan

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:50 AM, Erik Bruchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
We haven't thought much about this yet. Someday maybe! We are open to
thoughts on the topic of course.

-Erik

On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 2:37 AM, Jan Penninkhof <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Just curious, is there anyone that ever thought of adding multi-tenancy to
> Orbeon, or ideas on how that should be architected?
> With multi-tenancy, Orbeon might also be a mighty interesting software
> component in cloud-based solutions.
>
> Cheers,
> Jan
>
>
> --
> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
> list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>


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DL
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Re: Re: Multi-tenancy

DL
This post was updated on .
I'll have to grapple with this multiple domain issue at some stage (when deploying to cloud) so I guess now is a time to think about it.  

However on first reading the jury still seems to be out on multitenancy architectures.

Was just playing with the thought that if you would assign each tenant an Orbeon "application", you may have a good foundation already.
One problem surely is ensuring security between tenants' databases.

Tenants may not be too happy about sharing their data under the same roof (same database) as other tenants.

Searching for "multiple databases" on eXist forum ..

http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=2174345&query=multiple+databases

Here is one thread ...

http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Multiple-physical-database-instances-td2187710.html

and see this request ..

If you make use of more than one eXist-db instance in the same JVM then we would like to hear about it
http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Request-for-Use-Cases-of-Multiple-eXist-db-instances-in-same-JVM-td3350280.html#a3350433


[EDIT]

And see this nearby thread here on deploying external eXist-DB ...

http://orbeon-forms-ops-users.24843.n4.nabble.com/using-the-xml-db-API-in-XPL-datasource-xml-tp4655360.html

[EDIT again]

My own very early thoughts are to deploy with

tier 1  .. Drupal as front end CMS (multi site / multi domain configuration)
tier 2  .. Orbeon as xforms engine called from Drupal CMS
tier 3  .. eXist multiple databases



[.. and again ]

I found this useful IBM article setting out design options ...

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/data/library/techarticle/dm-1201dbdesigncloud/

for "DB2" read eXist-DB in our case.

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Re: Re: Re: Multi-tenancy

jpenninkhof
You are totally right. Sharing database is very likely to be a no-no. However, looking at Orbeons REST API and the fact each application/form can be connected to a different database, makes it appear like Orbeon was made for storing application-level (or tenant-level) data in various back-end systems. What do you think?


On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:34 PM, DL <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'll have to grapple with this multiple domain issue at some stage (when
deploying to cloud) so I guess now is a time to think about it.

However on first reading the jury still seems to be out on multitenancy
architectures.



> Was just playing with the thought that if you would assign each tenant an
> Orbeon "application", you may have a good foundation already.
>

One problem surely is ensuring security between tenants' databases.

Tenants may not be too happy about sharing their data under the same roof
(same database) as other tenants.

Searching for "multiple databases" on eXist forum ..

http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=2174345&query=multiple+databases

Here is one thread ...

http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Multiple-physical-database-instances-td2187710.html

and see this request ..



> If you make use of more than one eXist-db instance in the same JVM then we
> would like to hear about it
>

http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Request-for-Use-Cases-of-Multiple-eXist-db-instances-in-same-JVM-td3350280.html#a3350433

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View this message in context: http://orbeon-forms-ops-users.24843.n4.nabble.com/Multi-tenancy-tp4655340p4655380.html
Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Multi-tenancy

Erik Bruchez
Administrator
Yes I think you could assign to each client a Form Runner "app", and
target a different database for each.

-Erik

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Jan Penninkhof <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You are totally right. Sharing database is very likely to be a no-no.
> However, looking at Orbeons REST API and the fact each application/form can
> be connected to a different database, makes it appear like Orbeon was made
> for storing application-level (or tenant-level) data in various back-end
> systems. What do you think?
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:34 PM, DL <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'll have to grapple with this multiple domain issue at some stage (when
>> deploying to cloud) so I guess now is a time to think about it.
>>
>> However on first reading the jury still seems to be out on multitenancy
>> architectures.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Was just playing with the thought that if you would assign each tenant
>> > an
>> > Orbeon "application", you may have a good foundation already.
>> >
>>
>> One problem surely is ensuring security between tenants' databases.
>>
>> Tenants may not be too happy about sharing their data under the same roof
>> (same database) as other tenants.
>>
>> Searching for "multiple databases" on eXist forum ..
>>
>>
>> http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=2174345&query=multiple+databases
>>
>> Here is one thread ...
>>
>>
>> http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Multiple-physical-database-instances-td2187710.html
>>
>> and see this request ..
>>
>>
>>
>> > If you make use of more than one eXist-db instance in the same JVM then
>> > we
>> > would like to hear about it
>> >
>>
>>
>> http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Request-for-Use-Cases-of-Multiple-eXist-db-instances-in-same-JVM-td3350280.html#a3350433
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://orbeon-forms-ops-users.24843.n4.nabble.com/Multi-tenancy-tp4655340p4655380.html
>> Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
>> list.
>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>> OW2 mailing lists service home page: http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>
>
>
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> list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Multi-tenancy

koenvdk
Hi,

That's what we probably will try if we continue the pilot project we're building.

However, our major concern for Orbeon Multitenancy is scalability. If you're going multi-tenant, make sure you test this early ;-).


Biggest problem with getting it to a scalable state so far is that for some things, orbeon seems very slow (pdf generation and email sending, among others), Although this may be related to form-size of our test forms; performance will need to be watched carefully if we want to achieve sublineair scalability and a good end user experience.



Also: security: role-based is very necessary, but the addition of user-based, as discussed in another thread, is something that will probably be have to added in multi-tenant environment.

On that, I was curious: how hard would it be to make a version of the fr summary view that shows a user's submissions accross forms, instead of a form's across users? Supposing the persistency layer would already be built to support it and provide a restfull interface endpoint like POST "/search/username[optional: /app/form]"



Sincerely,


Koen Vanderkimpen

Connect: Twitter






From:        Erik Bruchez <[hidden email]>
To:        [hidden email]
Date:        30/06/2012 07:14
Subject:        [ops-users] Re: Re: Re: Re: Multi-tenancy
Sent by:        [hidden email]





Yes I think you could assign to each client a Form Runner "app", and
target a different database for each.

-Erik

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Jan Penninkhof <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You are totally right. Sharing database is very likely to be a no-no.
> However, looking at Orbeons REST API and the fact each application/form can
> be connected to a different database, makes it appear like Orbeon was made
> for storing application-level (or tenant-level) data in various back-end
> systems. What do you think?
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:34 PM, DL <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'll have to grapple with this multiple domain issue at some stage (when
>> deploying to cloud) so I guess now is a time to think about it.
>>
>> However on first reading the jury still seems to be out on multitenancy
>> architectures.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Was just playing with the thought that if you would assign each tenant
>> > an
>> > Orbeon "application", you may have a good foundation already.
>> >
>>
>> One problem surely is ensuring security between tenants' databases.
>>
>> Tenants may not be too happy about sharing their data under the same roof
>> (same database) as other tenants.
>>
>> Searching for "multiple databases" on eXist forum ..
>>
>>
>>
http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=2174345&query=multiple+databases
>>
>> Here is one thread ...
>>
>>
>>
http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Multiple-physical-database-instances-td2187710.html
>>
>> and see this request ..
>>
>>
>>
>> > If you make use of more than one eXist-db instance in the same JVM then
>> > we
>> > would like to hear about it
>> >
>>
>>
>>
http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Request-for-Use-Cases-of-Multiple-eXist-db-instances-in-same-JVM-td3350280.html#a3350433
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>>
http://orbeon-forms-ops-users.24843.n4.nabble.com/Multi-tenancy-tp4655340p4655380.html
>> Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
>> list.
>> To unsubscribe:
[hidden email]
>> For general help:
[hidden email]
>> OW2 mailing lists service home page:
http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>
>
>
> --
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> list.
> To unsubscribe:
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Overeenkomstig de bepalingen inzake de vertegenwoordiging van de vzw in haar statuten, kan enkel de gedelegeerde bestuurder, de algemeen directeur of zijn uitdrukkelijke lasthebber verbintenissen aangaan namens Smals.
Indien dit bericht niet voor u bestemd is, verzoeken wij u dit onmiddellijk aan ons te melden en het bericht te vernietigen.

Conformément aux dispositions relatives à la représentation de l'asbl dans ses statuts, seul l'administrateur délégué, le directeur général ou son mandataire exprès est habilité à souscrire des engagements au nom de Smals.
Si ce message ne vous est pas destiné, nous vous prions de nous le signaler immédiatement et de détruire le message.

According to the provisions regarding representation of the non profit association in its bylaws, only the chief executive officer, the general manager or his explicit agent can enter into engagements on behalf of Smals.
If you are not the addressee of this message, we kindly ask you to signal this to us immediately and to delete the message.





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DL
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Multi-tenancy

DL
However, our major concern for Orbeon Multitenancy is scalability. If you're going multi-tenant, make sure you test this early ;-).
My next thought .. how does the developer test scalability in a cloud test harness?

i.e. are there any pseudo random traffic generators used to stress xforms to point of failing?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Multi-tenancy

Erik Bruchez
Administrator
In reply to this post by koenvdk
However, our major concern for Orbeon Multitenancy is scalability. If you're going multi-tenant, make sure you test this early ;-).


Biggest problem with getting it to a scalable state so far is that for some things, orbeon seems very slow (pdf generation and email sending, among others), Although this may be related to form-size of our test forms; performance will need to be watched carefully if we want to achieve sublineair scalability and a good end user experience.

Agreed.

Also: security: role-based is very necessary, but the addition of user-based, as discussed in another thread, is something that will probably be have to added in multi-tenant environment.

Absolutely.

On that, I was curious: how hard would it be to make a version of the fr summary view that shows a user's submissions accross forms, instead of a form's across users? Supposing the persistency layer would already be built to support it and provide a restfull interface endpoint like POST "/search/username[optional: /app/form]"

Not "too" hard ;) I can see how to do it. The main issue is that I think we should use this opportunity to reorganize the code of the Summary page, which as a bit too much "history" by now. But it's going to be post-4.0.

-Erik
 



Sincerely,


Koen Vanderkimpen

Connect: Twitter






From:        Erik Bruchez <[hidden email]>
To:        [hidden email]
Date:        30/06/2012 07:14
Subject:        [ops-users] Re: Re: Re: Re: Multi-tenancy
Sent by:        [hidden email]





Yes I think you could assign to each client a Form Runner "app", and
target a different database for each.

-Erik

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Jan Penninkhof <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You are totally right. Sharing database is very likely to be a no-no.
> However, looking at Orbeons REST API and the fact each application/form can
> be connected to a different database, makes it appear like Orbeon was made
> for storing application-level (or tenant-level) data in various back-end
> systems. What do you think?
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:34 PM, DL <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'll have to grapple with this multiple domain issue at some stage (when
>> deploying to cloud) so I guess now is a time to think about it.
>>
>> However on first reading the jury still seems to be out on multitenancy
>> architectures.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Was just playing with the thought that if you would assign each tenant
>> > an
>> > Orbeon "application", you may have a good foundation already.
>> >
>>
>> One problem surely is ensuring security between tenants' databases.
>>
>> Tenants may not be too happy about sharing their data under the same roof
>> (same database) as other tenants.
>>
>> Searching for "multiple databases" on eXist forum ..
>>
>>
>>
http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=2174345&query=multiple+databases
>>
>> Here is one thread ...
>>
>>
>>
http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Multiple-physical-database-instances-td2187710.html
>>
>> and see this request ..
>>
>>
>>
>> > If you make use of more than one eXist-db instance in the same JVM then
>> > we
>> > would like to hear about it
>> >
>>
>>
>>
http://exist.2174344.n4.nabble.com/Request-for-Use-Cases-of-Multiple-eXist-db-instances-in-same-JVM-td3350280.html#a3350433
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>>
http://orbeon-forms-ops-users.24843.n4.nabble.com/Multi-tenancy-tp4655340p4655380.html
>> Sent from the Orbeon Forms (ops-users) mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the [hidden email] mailing
>> list.
>> To unsubscribe:
[hidden email]
>> For general help:
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>> OW2 mailing lists service home page:
http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>
>
>
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> list.
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Overeenkomstig de bepalingen inzake de vertegenwoordiging van de vzw in haar statuten, kan enkel de gedelegeerde bestuurder, de algemeen directeur of zijn uitdrukkelijke lasthebber verbintenissen aangaan namens Smals.
Indien dit bericht niet voor u bestemd is, verzoeken wij u dit onmiddellijk aan ons te melden en het bericht te vernietigen.

Conformément aux dispositions relatives à la représentation de l'asbl dans ses statuts, seul l'administrateur délégué, le directeur général ou son mandataire exprès est habilité à souscrire des engagements au nom de Smals.
Si ce message ne vous est pas destiné, nous vous prions de nous le signaler immédiatement et de détruire le message.

According to the provisions regarding representation of the non profit association in its bylaws, only the chief executive officer, the general manager or his explicit agent can enter into engagements on behalf of Smals.
If you are not the addressee of this message, we kindly ask you to signal this to us immediately and to delete the message.






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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Multi-tenancy

Erik Bruchez
Administrator
In reply to this post by DL
> i.e. are there any pseudo random traffic generators used to stress xforms to
> point of failing?

We did some very basic tests with JMeter. Selenium might be of help
too. We really, really would like to work more on comprehensive
automated tests (including multi-user), sometime post 4.0.

-Erik


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Multi-tenancy

jpenninkhof
Hi Koen,

As for the scalability, I don't think there aren't issues that a load balance can't resolve. What you may be referring to is a general concern about performance of rendering PDF files. But as long as your (virtual) server farm is large enough, running some PDFs shouldn't bring the entire systems to its knees, right?

I'm very interested in your use-case, as we're playing with exactly the same thought. Have you already selected/nominated JPAAS providers that you have succesfully been able to run Orbeon on?

Cheers,
Jan


On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Erik Bruchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> i.e. are there any pseudo random traffic generators used to stress xforms to
> point of failing?

We did some very basic tests with JMeter. Selenium might be of help
too. We really, really would like to work more on comprehensive
automated tests (including multi-user), sometime post 4.0.

-Erik


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