MIPS: type and required combined

> I'm not seeing the behavior I expect when combining
> "type" and "required" MIPS.
>
> What I'm seeing is this: if I put "type" on a model
> item, the node becomes required and registers an error
> if the user tries to submit the form instance without
> providing a value for the field. This happens whether
> "required" is left off (the default "false()") or set
> explicitly to "false()".
>
> This doesn't seem right to me. I would think that
> setting the datatype yet having required set to
> false() would make the node optional.
>
> Am I missing something here, or is there some other
> way to set the datatype on a node and still have it
> optional?
>
> I see by looking through the mail archives there is an
> effort underway to address these issues:
> http://mail.ow2.org/wws/arc/ops-users/2008-03/msg00593.html
>
> Can you provide an update?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don
>
>
>      
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> Don,
>
> You would think so, but that's not how the XForms
> spec says it should  
> work.
>
> If you specify type="xs:decimal", you are strictly
> enforcing this  
> type, whether you have required="false()" on the
> same node. Since  
> xs:decimal does not support a blank value, the node
> will be invalid  
> even if not required.
>
> In other words, the notion of "validity" and
> "requiredness" are  
> completely separate in XForms. Don't feel bad, I do
> remember that we  
> at Orbeon were confused by this a few years ago too,
> when we started  
> looking at the XForms 1.0 spec.
>
> The approach chosen by XForms 1.1 to solve your
> problem instead  
> consists in providing extension types of the form
> xforms:decimal, etc.  
> Those allow empty values. They are implemented in
> Orbeon Forms.
>
> Regarding the email you are pointing at: what we
> have changed in  
> Orbeon Forms recently regards when an alert is
> shown: we used to show  
> alerts only when a control was invalid, but we now
> how it also if it  
> is required but empty. We think that this is good
> default behavior,  
> however, this behavior really shouldn't be
> hardcoded, it should be  
> entirely controllable through CSS. This is the part
> where things are  
> still lacking a bit at the moment.
>
> -Erik
>
> On Apr 25, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Don Smith wrote:
>
> > I'm not seeing the behavior I expect when
> combining
> > "type" and "required" MIPS.
> >
> > What I'm seeing is this: if I put "type" on a
> model
> > item, the node becomes required and registers an
> error
> > if the user tries to submit the form instance
> without
> > providing a value for the field. This happens
> whether
> > "required" is left off (the default "false()") or
> set
> > explicitly to "false()".
> >
> > This doesn't seem right to me. I would think that
> > setting the datatype yet having required set to
> > false() would make the node optional.
> >
> > Am I missing something here, or is there some
> other
> > way to set the datatype on a node and still have
> it
> > optional?
> >
> > I see by looking through the mail archives there
> is an
> > effort underway to address these issues:
> >
>

> >
> > Can you provide an update?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >      
> >
>

> >
> >
> > --
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> > mailing list.
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> mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> > OW2 mailing lists service home page:
> http://www.ow2.org/wws
>
> --
> Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the
> Right Way
> http://www.orbeon.com/
>
> >
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> Eric,
>
> Thanks. I updated my type to the xforms namespace and
> that did what I needed. I'll have to spend some time
> on the 1.0 and 1.0 spec concepts of validity and
> requiredness.
>
> Don
> --- Erik Bruchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Don,
>>
>> You would think so, but that's not how the XForms
>> spec says it should
>> work.
>>
>> If you specify type="xs:decimal", you are strictly
>> enforcing this
>> type, whether you have required="false()" on the
>> same node. Since
>> xs:decimal does not support a blank value, the node
>> will be invalid
>> even if not required.
>>
>> In other words, the notion of "validity" and
>> "requiredness" are
>> completely separate in XForms. Don't feel bad, I do
>> remember that we
>> at Orbeon were confused by this a few years ago too,
>> when we started
>> looking at the XForms 1.0 spec.
>>
>> The approach chosen by XForms 1.1 to solve your
>> problem instead
>> consists in providing extension types of the form
>> xforms:decimal, etc.
>> Those allow empty values. They are implemented in
>> Orbeon Forms.
>>
>> Regarding the email you are pointing at: what we
>> have changed in
>> Orbeon Forms recently regards when an alert is
>> shown: we used to show
>> alerts only when a control was invalid, but we now
>> how it also if it
>> is required but empty. We think that this is good
>> default behavior,
>> however, this behavior really shouldn't be
>> hardcoded, it should be
>> entirely controllable through CSS. This is the part
>> where things are
>> still lacking a bit at the moment.
>>
>> -Erik
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Don Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not seeing the behavior I expect when
>> combining
>>> "type" and "required" MIPS.
>>>
>>> What I'm seeing is this: if I put "type" on a
>> model
>>> item, the node becomes required and registers an
>> error
>>> if the user tries to submit the form instance
>> without
>>> providing a value for the field. This happens
>> whether
>>> "required" is left off (the default "false()") or
>> set
>>> explicitly to "false()".
>>>
>>> This doesn't seem right to me. I would think that
>>> setting the datatype yet having required set to
>>> false() would make the node optional.
>>>
>>> Am I missing something here, or is there some
>> other
>>> way to set the datatype on a node and still have
>> it
>>> optional?
>>>
>>> I see by looking through the mail archives there
>> is an
>>> effort underway to address these issues:
>>>
>>
> http://mail.ow2.org/wws/arc/ops-users/2008-03/msg00593.html
>>>
>>> Can you provide an update?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
>>
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the
>> [hidden email]
>>> mailing list.
>>> To unsubscribe:
>> mailto:[hidden email]
>>> For general help:
>> mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>>> OW2 mailing lists service home page:
>> http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>> --
>> Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the
>> Right Way
>> http://www.orbeon.com/
>>
>>>
>> --
>> You receive this message as a subscriber of the
>> [hidden email] mailing list.
>> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
>> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
>> OW2 mailing lists service home page:
>> http://www.ow2.org/wws
>>
>
>
>
>      
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
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